We have been shooting this match ....

[Danny Creasy]

since about 1990. I am just flat out tired of it. I would like to see us try something that encourages accuracy more and speed less.

Maybe not the complicated old NRA rimfire silo game but how about something fired at 50 yards. We could use our existing racks, sporter rifles (less than 8.5 lbs with scope), .22 LR only, and score it with a least misses format.

Rifles like these:

[Dwight Pilkilton]

Im up for it, I am bored with the old game as well.

Dwight

[Jim Watson]

Might have to have a kid's and beginner's event at 25 yards. 50 is a long way offhand; not even called for in CMP with a bullseye where a pulled shot is an 8 instead of a miss.

[Danny Creasy]

Most bullseye competitions do not have kid's and beginner's versions. Official metallic silhouette does not have kid's and beginner's versions. IDPA and IPSC do not have kid's and beginner's versions.

Yes, they all have classes for youth and in some cases classes for beginners. But, they don't change the basic design of the match for the these two groups.

And as far as CMP Sporter goes, I think it is silly to shoot the offhand stage at 25 yards. Reasons:

1) One has to change his/her sight settings and parallax setting in mid-match without the ability to shoot sighters.

2) Everybody has to move all of their equipment and in our case, that means out into the rain and glaring sun in some cases.

3) It has also contributed to the scoring inflation. If people had to shoot their sporters offhand at 50 yards instead of 25 yards, you can bet they would not be turning in offhand scores that are higher than or about as high as their prone and sitting scores. Thus, the CMP officials would not have to be constantly raising the metal class point thresholds to allow for the "grade inflation".

Give "Junior" more credit. He will show up and proudly shoot the big boy's match. Yes, he may leave 35 animals standing the first time. But, if he practices and puts those young sharp eyes to work, then he will be sweeping those racks clean before you know it.

And frankly, I was not looking for another junior shooting program. I was looking for a challenging match to further fine hone the shooting skills of the serious shooters in our club.

I will be glad to add junior and beginner scoring classes if enough folks show up to make it worthwhile.

[Danny Creasy]

Just in case you missed it in the newsletter, I posted the experimental Fifty Fifty Sporter Match in the calendar:

New for 1st Saturdays – I am tired of Rapid Fire Rimfire after 16 years.
We can use the same racks and metallic animals. But, let’s try something different.
FIFTY FIFTY SPORTER Nine-O-Clock in the mornin and startin on March 3rd!
We will have 25 animals (one little chicken included) on a rack. The shooter will have 10 minutes for 25 shots from 50 yards. Each competitor will shoot the rack twice. The marksman with the fewest misses out of all fifty shots wins. Offhand – unsupported – no slings. .22 Long Rifle only. The only other rifle restrictions are (1) a weight limit of 8.5 lbs. including sights or scope and (2) a rule that the rifle’s stock must have a traditional sporter configuration (no palm rests) . Trigger must be safe. No “sighters” allowed. We may add TWENTY-FIVE TWENTY-FIVE HANDGUN later in the year. NRA wrist watches go to 1st and 2nd place winners in March. Zero em at 50 yards and come on over.

[Danny Creasy]

I have printed up some score sheets.

I decided it was best to record hits rather misses (more positive).
Of course, my printed sheets are bigger, centered, and more evenly spaced than the example below. But, this is the printed matter.


FIFTY FIFTY SPORTER
SCORE SHEET


Date: ______________________

Shooter’s name: ______________________________

Rifle’s weight with sights or scope (magazine removed): ____________

For a hit, mark with an “X”. For a miss, leave blank.

RACK #1 RACK #2

1. ________ 1. ________
2. ________ 2. ________
3. ________ 3. ________
4. ________ 4. ________
5. ________ 5. ________
6. ________ 6. ________
7. ________ 7. ________
8. ________ 8. ________
9. ________ 9. ________
10. ________ 10. ________
11. ________ 11. ________
12. ________ 12. ________
13. ________ 13. ________
14. ________ 14. ________
15. ________ 15. ________
16. ________ 16. ________
17. ________ 17. ________
18. ________ 18. ________
19. ________ 19. ________
20. ________ 20. ________
21. ________ 21. ________
22. ________ 22. ________
23. ________ 23. ________
24. ________ 24. ________
25. ________ 25. ________

Total ________ Total ________



Grand Total ___________

[Jim Watson]

Seems well thought out, since you are after a real skill test, throw the beginners in at the deep end.

Q: I take it that you are limited to one shot per critter, hit or miss, like regulation silhouettes, just everything at one distance. Right? A box of shells per match, convenient for those who do not buy ammo in case lots.
Must they be shot in order, like regulation silhouettes?


Now, can we get a couple more Saturdays added to the month so I can shoot everything of interest? Or maybe just move the Saturdays from Jan-Feb to spring and fall.

[Danny Creasy]

jimwatson said:

Seems well thought out, since you are after a real skill test, throw the beginners in at the deep end.

Q: I take it that you are limited to one shot per critter, hit or miss, like regulation silhouettes, just everything at one distance. Right? A box of shells per match, convenient for those who do not buy ammo in case lots.
Must they be shot in order, like regulation silhouettes?


Now, can we get a couple more Saturdays added to the month so I can shoot everything of interest? Or maybe just move the Saturdays from Jan-Feb to spring and fall.

You have been at this too long Jim.

I have been going over this match in my head and the amendments just keep on coming.

I have been leaning towards just letting the shooter put the 25 shots where he things best. Easier on the shooter - at least he could get all the rams and pigs. It would be easier for the poor scoring official as well. The scorer can simply mark off the shots as the gun goes bang. Of course, if this be the case, then I will have to amend my score sheet to have the scorer put both Xs and Os as the shooter works his way through the 25 shots. Leaving the missed shots blank would make it hard for the scorer to keep track.

[Jim Watson]

Well, if the order shot doesn't matter, it will be easier on the shooter who doesn't have to keep track of where he is on a large rack of plates. No "Did I miss that one or was it next?" type indecision.

And easier on the scorekeeper. No need for a shot by shot scorecard, just count the targets left standing after ten minutes/25 shots.

[Danny Creasy]

jimwatson said:

And easier on the scorekeeper. No need for a shot by shot scorecard, just count the targets left standing after ten minutes/25 shots.

Well, I thought about that to. But, how do we monitor how many shots they have taken? Two choices:
1) The score card above modified for Xs and Os.

2) The RO verifies that the shooter only takes 25 rounds to the firing line.

Thoughts about each:

1) The common problem (or is it a windfall) we have of one animal knocking off another (or several for that matter) would be eliminated. Although it may cause a new problem in the case of a slick shooter like Dwight or James. If you are scoring each shot a hit or a miss and one or two animals are knocked off by lead splatter or another animal falling on them, then ole Dwight smokin along with a perfect or near perfect run could run out of targets and have his score capped prematurely.

Partial reset?

Go back to the animals left standing scoring (not logical)?

Give him a hit for the wobbly victims?

2) The simplicity of this method of shot count control is appealing. I can't see any of our folks slipping a couple of cartridges in their pockets. If any animals fall inadvertently, then it is simply a "ground rule" and the shooter uses that to smooth his hurt feelings over the other big chicken he just hit and spun and stayed on its feet.

Downside:
If the shooter has a misfire, is that just tough luck or does she get to set her cleared rifle down and get a substitute round? Maybe let the RO hold the shooter's spare ammo box?
A similar problem especially relevant to semi-automatic fans will be jams. These often result in one or two mangled or lost rounds.

The game already favors the bolt gun. Am I penalizing the auto-loaders even further? Several members have nice 10-22s set up and I feel these rifles can be quite competitive (the semi-auto shooter can hold his firing position when he is in a groove). Does the advantage, just punctuated, more than compensate them for their slightly less reliable action type?

Added by edit:

Relevant to this discussion, I am going to go with Peary's often suggested rack set-up change. He always and wisely argued that we should have the bigger (more precarious) animals on the bottom. I was thinking of the following set up (from top to bottom):

Turkeys (with a single mean little chicken in the center)
Big Chickens
Pigs
Rams

[Jim Watson]

Either way can be made to work.
On consideration, I favor scoring each individual shot hit or miss, X or O, shooter deals with misfires and malfunctions as required. No bookkeeping required on ammo, but scorekeeper must be alert and not distracted for 25 shots in a row.

That because windfall extra targets downed by spatter or vibration should be reset. Otherwise, one of these days, match placement would be decided by luck. I think a single target downed by a hit on the rail should count, requiring the scorekeeper to call hits on steel would be too demanding.

I would count a turned target as a miss, a tipped target - chicken on its beak, which I have seen - as a miss, but a target flat on the rail is a hit.

I have not shot recently enough to have an idea of stability of targets. I would expect the birds with only one leg to be the least stable and would put them on the bottom rows.

Or just set them up at random. Faster resets and with no order of engagement required, it should make little difference. Might make the shooter work a little harder finding center of mass.

[James Day]

I like it. Of course, there will be some questions to come up as we go. Danny planned the game and is quite capable of solving any issues that come up. I think we should try it. Its just a game. No one should get their feelings hurt while it goes through the organizational stages. I think it will be fun.

James

[Dwight Pilkilton]

I agree , Just shoot it and see what happens. We can make adjustments after the first match is shot. We need to be sure everyone knows this is a work in progress and if we find a major kink things might change in the future. You never know how its going to work until you "Build it and try to Fly it"

As for kids we could let them rest an elbow on a table if they are under 12 or are having problems with the ergonomics or gun handling ?? just a suggestion.

Dwight

[Jim Watson]

Rembering life as David Hardwick's guinea pigs, time to shake down a new event won't be long at all.

[Danny Creasy]

Some of us did a little 50 yard shooting at a steel spinner yesterday at the end of the CMP Sporter Match. I discussed some of the above topics with the shooters that participated in the brief spinner shooting contest.

The consensus was to keep it simple. So, each shooter will go to the line with only 25 rounds of ammunition verified by the RO. When he or she is ready, the RO will announce that the 10 minute shooting period has started. The string will be finished after the 10 minutes elapse and the scorekeeper calls "time" or when the shooter's 25 rounds have been fired (whichever comes first). We will run two racks (in the interest of time) with a shooter at each and an observer will be assigned to each shooter. The number of steel animals left standing will be the shooter's score. The lower the score the better.

Here is the revised score sheet:

FIFTY FIFTY SPORTER
INDIVIDUAL SCORE SHEET

Date: ____________________

Shooter’s name: __________________________

Rifle Data: _______________ _______________
Manufacturer Model

Scope or Sights: _______________ ______________ _____________
Manufacturer Model Magnification

Ammunition: ________________ ________________
Manufacturer Name

Rifle’s weight with sights or scope included (magazine removed): ______

RACK #1 RACK #2

Silhouettes left standing: ________ ________


Total: __________

If animals fall off by accident, then that is simply the shooter's good fortune. On the other hand, if a shooter has a jam or a misfire then he or she needs to take great care in clearing the malfunction so that the shooter can use the rounds involved to complete the course of fire with the maximum number of fired rounds. The 25 rounds you take to the line is all you are going to get.

Remember, it is next Saturday (March 3rd) and it will start at 9:00 am. If the temperature is below 40 at match time and/or it is raining or snowing then the match will be postponed. Please have your rifle sighted in at 50 yards and be sure you have tested the ammunition you are going to use for reliability and functioning.

The "Sporter" style stock rule will be enforced with the following exceptions:

1) a thumb-hole stock will be allowed if the rest of the stock is of general sporter configuration.

2) pistol grip stocks will be allowed such as the military style aftermarket 10-22 stocks or the AR .22 LR conversion units.

Ohh yeah. This match - like all of ours - is open to the public. So, if you are a non-member just surfing our site and would like to shoot with us then you are more than welcome. We just ask that you be safe, don't whine, and have fun.